Forgiveness Part Two
Thanks for the comments from the post yesterday. All of them were good.
Where I am going with my thoughts is in this direction: Why do our actions reveal that we will forgive someone for individual sins and also believe that God has forgiven them, but when we perceive a sin of theology or doctrine has been committed, we treat that differently. I am not talking about Satan worshipers or those who deny Christ, I am talking about other believers. It's as if we believe God will not forgive those who have different traditions and doctrines from us, even though we acknowledge that these are not what Christ defined as "weightier matters". Not what WE defined, HE defined. Some may ask for some tangible examples of what I am talking about. Ok, how about not participating in different outreach programs in the community because we don't want to be associated with "that group"? We don't want to be grouped with some of those who are "in error"....even though the work is for HIS glory. I have known people who would not ask a person of a different fellowship to pray publicly. It wasn't because of any individual sin the person was involved in, it was simply because of his membership with a different fellowship. I am sure you could go on and on.
Did Jesus address this in Mark 9? "For whoever is not against US is for US". Satan is our enemy, not other believers who are trying to be servants in His Kingdom. What kind of impact of light and salt could we have in our communities if unbelievers saw our unity instead of us not being united in delivering the Good News to them?
We had a community wide service here a few days after September 11, 2001. We had around 5,000 believers of LOTS of different fellowships together that day, and it was one of the most impacting events I have ever been a part of. It brought the community together. One of my friends was sitting behind an Elder of the College church, and my friend said that the first thing out of that elder's mouth after the service ended was "Isn't it a shame that it took something like this to get us all together in prayer and praise." Yea, it is.
So, back to my question. Are we not to forgive groups for their "sins", as we do individuals? I believe God does. For OUR sake, I sure hope He does.
9 Comments:
1 John 4:1-3 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world."
1 John 5:1 "Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God; and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him."
I don't know about you, but those two passages indicate to me that the test of fellowship is a lot simpler than we sometimes make it. When he says "whoever", I think he means just that. If we don't love the child born of Him, do we love Him?
This post is the "bottom line" problem in my congregation(and a couple I was part of in my younger years). I appreciate "don's" comments--the scriptures he used. I'm so curious(as always)--did that college church elder henceforth have his congregation HOST assemblies like that? I am so thankful I grew up in a home where my parents taught me(using scripture)that anyone who believes that Jesus is the Son of God and obeys God's Word and mostly,SEEKS God, then we are brothers and sisters in HIM! I PRAY that God forgives US cofcer's for teaching in error! Annie
I think that the pursuit of rightness (not righteousness) has for too long been an idolatrous obsession for people in the C of C and the C of C itself, as a movement (denomination etc). I forgive them all. This movement is not the only guilty party, but it is the one we're talking about here.
Rightness I will define as a means by which I find my superior position based on Biblical facts interpretted in approved ways.
Righteousness I will define as the goodness of God overflowing from someone in grace, honesty, compassion, hope, love, fruit of the spirit stuff and all that.
So, without an obsession for rightness, how does one draw the lines of fellowship? F. Lagard Smith thinks he's got it figured out in his book, "Who's My Brother?" But I think he's wrong and still clinging to and old school way of thinking.
A more provocative question is raised by Brian McLaren in his book, "A New Kind of Christan," when he asks, "What business is it of yours who goes to Hell?"
Don't think this question to be anti-evangelistic, but rather it is anti-I'm-gonna-sit-in-God's-place-and-make-determinations-about-things-I-do-not-understand.
Even forgiving other denominations, although it is good and right to do, smacks of rightness addiction still, as if we are the forgivers and not the forigven.
OK, I'll shut up.
Fajita, thanks for your insightful response. You never have to shut up brother! :)
I love my brother LaGard. What choice do I have, he is a relative of someone I consider a hero......Jim Woodroof! The work LaGard did on the NIV Daily Bible was UNBELIEVABLE! I can't imagine anybody doing a better job than that! I appreciate so much the time and energy he must have put into that project that is a blessing to so many people. Having said that, I lost some respect for LaGard because of the "Who's My Brother" book. He turned Mark 9 into a sectarian passage. He had no choice.....he had to so he could remain consistent. It was a matter of making scripture match up with your theology, instead of making sure your theology matches up with scripture.
His devotional books are wonderful, and I hope he sticks to that from now on.
Thanks again for your comments. It is always good to hear your views.
God Bless,
DU
Jesus said in a parable that the kingdom of God is like... a group of vineyard workers hired at different times of the day. You know the story, but READ it. at the end there is a powerful lesson to me. The owner purposely pays the latecomers, those who didn't do a days work (didn't get it all right?) were paid first and the owners reply to the complaining ones those that thought it unfair, was "who are you to be jealous of the way I spend MY money". We tend to think we are the all day long workers. I am sure I'm not, but there are always those who are God's people, who others don't think are his, and those who are sure they are his people and they are not. I agree with the LaGard Smith comments... alot of great work and some not so good, Sort of like all of us I guess.
The apostle Paul may have been able to "forget what is behind" and "press on toward the goal" (Phil. 3:13-14), but he never lost sight of his roots (I Cor. 15:9-10), his ongoing struggle with sin or the One who gives victory over it (Rom. 7:21-25). In short, he always saw himself as no more and no less than a sinner saved by grace, and that gave him the perspective to see everyone else through Jesus' eyes.
My question - as it must be yours, David, or you wouldn't have put quotes around "sins"! - is whether the differences we perceive in other groups really are sins.
Or if the real sin is in insisting on separating and being "right" when Jesus' dying request (Neale Pryor's phrasing) in John 17 is for unity.
I so agree with you all. Bottom line is we all need God's grace. Let's say for an example, public worship with a guitar happens to be a sin in God's sight. He can't forgive that sin and he can forgive my pride? What if, even though I read my Bible every day and try to do things as I understand God wants me to, I still get something totally wrong. Can God forgive that? I pray he can. I agree, it's time to honor the prayer of our Savior in John 17 and show the world Jesus is Lord, and his followers are one.
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